I think its interesting how a lot of people feel the hyperion NEEDS 5 mids to be able to run an active tank - and at the same time a lot of people seem to think the megathron NEEDS its 7 lows back. And along with this, why do you need 5 mids to fit 2 cap injectors? I can see some solo pilots having a more difficult time staying cap stable while running enough tackle, but this is a common problem for battleships and it seems weird that the Hyperion would be exempt.

As far as the dominix and its old unpredictability, I expect that to be completely preserved. It won't be capable of the highest damage numbers of any battleship now, but it can still fit blasters across the top and run mag stabs along with drone damage amps and heavy drones.

Moving the slot layout this way would hopefully reinforce performance around its bonus for armor repping. It would likely have to run 2 injectors, as it did before, and give up a piece of tackle. Since its primary purpose was not to tackle, but to absorb damage and dish it out, the low seemed more useful.

Taking away a low on the hyperion makes it a worse brawler, not better.

Right now it can fit cap booster, scram, web, prop, and a 2nd cap booster, which is needed to active tank it.

Dropping a mid forces it to either go propless, in which case it is massively outclassed by the maelstrom, or drop a cap booster, in which case it is hilariously vulnerable to neuts.

We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.

There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.

Thanks for the feedback

As others have said Hyperion 7/5/7. Change to RoF bonus for guns.

I've always felt the 3 gallente BSes were a bit too similar so changing up the mega and domi could bring some interesting options to the table.

in this thread: a bunch of nerds who hate and fear change

bwahahahhahahahah
aha
ha
ahhaah
ahhhhhhhhhh
bwahahahahahahahahha

who the **** would fly domi over the geddon now, worthless.

to think i was excited that kil2 got hired by ccp becase you actually played the game. are these actually your changes? what the **** was the point of hiring you?

these changed are bad and you should feel ******* bad.

please quit, thx.

Megathron proposed changes. Solo/shield...

Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
100MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Warrior II x5

- killz

So I guess now the Megathron gets to join the Hyperion on the shelf titled "Pretty ships with no practical purpose due to terrible slot layout".

Incursus - Impressively Fast. Active rep bonus.
Brutix - Very fast. Active rep bonus.
Hyperion - Floating Brick. Active rep bonus.

Wut?

Make the Hyperion 7-5-7. Give it a 10% damage bonus. Make the damn thing go fast. Shake n' Bake. This by it's nature should be the Assault BS.

The Mega used to be favored for tracking, damage and rails. It would be the obvious choice for fleets if it were fixed.

- Reduce the base armor from 8000 (base) down to ~5500

Look at active tanked Maelstroms/Rokhs.
Their actual hitpoints are quite low. I don't really care how you reduce the base HP, but having 30-40k more on a ship with a greater tank isn't exactly in line with the whole tiericide thing. I'd much rather see a whole ton of hp come out of the shields, but I know CCP doesn't like to force a playstyle on the users (looking at you shield gankers)

Edited post to be a bit more realistic;
6500 shield, 7000 armor, 7500 hull

The Hyperion has all of those things, and with 5 mids you can triple rep (LAR/LAR/LAAR) which results in a bigger active tank AND more hp & dps than a Mael/Rokh.

EDIT: Tracking statement is based on losing a utility low which usually carries a magstab or TE to apply the mega's full DPS potential

Considering the comments, low slots are exactly as valuable as mid slots : Megathron cannot lose its low slot, it's invaluable ; Hyperion cannot lose its mid slot, it's invaluable.

I tend to analyze this as fear of change : mega pilots don't want their mega changed, and hyperion pilots don't want their hyperion changed. The only thing which would please them is a straight addition of something to make their beloved ship OP (read "have more than the others").

I saw some Hyperion work with only one cap booster. What should I believe ? What I saw, or what narrow-minded children here complain about ?

As you said, it's not that simple, but the biggest problem, looking at all the complaints, is that people only look at their tiny niche with a very narrow point of view, blinkers and absolutely zero openmindness about the possibilities these changes open. Reactions to the Dominix and the Megathron say quite a lot about this in fact.

Lookinng at the changes, Hyperion and Megathron kind of swap their original roles, but people don't care : Hyperion does not exists to them because of "useless" armor rep bonus, and their beloved Megathron supposedly died, whereas none of these assesrtion hold any bit of truth, and if you actually read the comments, yould see it.

Single Heavy Cap Booster 2 is saying 4mins for me before heat etc. Seems pretty standard amount of cap to me. And that assuming you need to run both reppers full time...

Best line in the OP was:

"We believe this is a very exciting direction for the Dominix, and hope you will too! "

Yes, making the Dominix worse than the "Suddenly Drone Boat" Armageddon is really exciting. I'm sooo looking forward to training Amarr Battleship 5.

The ships bonus was not +1 turret hard point per level, the total affected damage loss is around 150dps with blasters.
quit whining that this ship is useless and pull your head out of where the sun doesn't shine, the functionality of the ships has not gone down at all, the only change is that sentry and heavy drones will be able to hit better with out the need to plug in 2 omnidirectional tracking links.

AAR is pretty good

PS: PLS FIX ASTARTE !!!

Hyperion has many Issues


its cap is crappy withouth 5 Med,s
its not able to fight in fleet fights with 4 med,s (because to less lock in range)
its tank is crappy without 7 low,s
its dmg is crappy wihout 7 low,s

general problems

for blaster setup its to bulky and lacks of slots
for rail fleet setup it has to less lock on range
to bad tracking

so i just see the extra low slot will help (without removing a med)
or buff the cap and make the ship faster and give it more lock in range

Askulf Joringer / IceDe4d

PS: PLS FIX ASTARTE !!!


Please don't.

ATM Damnation & Abso will get an AOE DD bonus and Astarte/Eos will get an optimal range bonus to Fireworks and Snowballs.

Lets fix one disaster at a time before we get into another mk.

New versions of Hyperion and Megathron posted in the OP - let me know what you guys think.

Or you run missions in your hyper like I do. The armor rep bonus helps there. Dont just think of the PVP implications of all the ships, there are a lot of people who will only ever use these ships to run level 4 missions

Aren't Dominix missing a slot? All other ships have 19, while Dominix only have 18.

I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.

Don't balance a ship around dead space, faction and officer mods.

If you balance the ship around dead space, faction and officer mods then the ship has to use them to be effective, and that sets an unacceptable barrier for vets vs. noobs.

seems like the navy brutix will kill off the new mega before it has started :(

Only thing in common with the Vindicator is the Web bonus. Apart from that Vindicator has 8/5/7 slots layout, better, PG, CPU, armour, shield, structure, capacitor, drone bandwidth, etc. To put it simply, the Vindicator is better in just about every way.

Sharing a single bonus does not make it the same ship. It's like saying the Machariel and the Tempest are the same because they share "5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level" So I'd have to disagree saying that the Megathron would be a vindicator.

I'll be happy to discuss why you feel the suggestion is overpowered. You probably don't know but I've been around the block when it comes to pvp all the way back to EVE's launch. So I've personally experienced all the changes EVE and this ship has gone through.



The suggestion would make the Megathron a worse Vindicator, same as a Apocalypse Navy Issue is a better version of the Apocalypse.

On another note, you seem very angry for some reason, I'd suggest putting those issues aside in an effort to have a productive discussion.

the domi model looks too ugly i know some people like that giant turd look but not all of us please update its appearance to look like the carrier youve turned it into

The issue is primarily CCP getting us addicted ever since the new mega/tempest/stabber hulls :S

Dude ! 6 turrets may not be that sexy, but it's definitely optimized ! The new Hyperion is better than it ever was !

Projectiles are only good when you don't need a weapon in the first place...

Why are people talking like the mega has been buffed? It hasn't, it has the same dps and tank of the old mega, but no utility slot for a neut or whatever else you want to throw in there. If you're going to keep it like this, at least give it the 125 bandwidth back so that we're getting more dps with the advantage of an eighth low slot, instead of using it to just get it back to where it is now.

OK I'm not very happy with the Hyperion I suggested in retrospect. I think the original CCP proposal for the Hyperion might have been OK if they added a bonus to armour rep capacitor use (in addition to repair amount) so that you could run two reps with a single injector.

RoF bonus better than damage bonus, you know it right? DPS will not change a lot but we will have extra low for tank\TE\Magstab or ECCM.

With new layouts Mega is good fleet ship. Dont ruin it :)

Mate, learn to quote properly...

a) you've snipped all the bits from the other two posters.
b) you've mis-quoted me.

Sure thing. In this change Hyper looses 10% of gun DPS.

Increased Drone bay and bandwidth do not cover this DPS loss even remotely.

So basically after this patch Hyper will be just worse than before.

The third mag stab just puts you back to where we were with the current levels of dps, but with no utility and the same tank. If you use the extra slot for tank, you'll have the same dps as you would if you just used only 1 mag stab on the current version. Obviously the numbers are a bit different but we're only talking about a difference of maybe 30 dps. IMO it's not worth it to sacrifice the utility. I'd be fine with it if we got the 125mb bandwidth as well but by cutting the drone bay these changes just feel like a nerf.

You still snipped the context to which I was replying to but ok...

1270 DPS, 3 mag stab, 3 Ogre II's.

Personally I'm not sold on the speed being all that much of an advantage. The idea of an "attack" battleship just seems already obsolete because of the attack battlecruisers. The speed would have to be much better than it is now to really give it an "attack" profile. I think they should not try and balance the BS based on roles and rather just make sure they make sense as individual ships. Roles are fine and dandy for cruisers and maybe even BCs but for BS you'd have to drastically change the stats for them to make sense in any role beyond heavy tank ewar or heavy combat.

I have to ask this, and it's not to be a 'douche' but, do you fly the Megathron on TQ?

Because calling people 'babies', who more than likely have more experience in their little finger, of flying Megathrons than yourself, is not constructive.

Loss of the utility high is very significant for a lot of the blaster fits.

Now having said that, nothing is going to stop me flying the ship that's been my 'darling' these past 9 years, I've already got modified fits in mind.

Take this personally if you wish, but I'm pointing out that you come across as an unconstructive scrub.

And, suurrre you're a beta player - if you were, you'd have no need to hide behind an alt in a constructive balancing thread

The new Megathron does not stand out to me as being that much more turret focused than the Hyperion.

9.3333 effective turrets vs 9, 50mbit less drones. Shouldn't the Mega be gankier than the Hype?

All in all it's receiving a significant nerf

If I'm honest, I really don't like the idea of the 7/5/7 Mega at this point. Originally, I thought it could be really fun to have the Mega become much more flexible and let it be the go-to small gang gun ship for Gallente. I think for that to work though, the Hyp would have had to become the fleet-focused gun ship so that there wasn't a lot of blurring between them. Even with the way it ended up working out, I still don't feel totally comfortable with the overlap between them, and if they were both 7/5/7 it would be MUCH worse.

Hope you can find a way to love one of them anyway =p

As for the Dominix CPU, I'll have a look at it when I'm back in the office next week, but I doubt it will get changed.

How many different people have to explain that RoF is superior to the same value of Dmg increase. If you have +5% per LvL of RoF it's higher total DPS than +5% dmg per LvL.